RENAULT 5 Electric: Towards a reduced price. as its autonomy!, Renault R5: The electric city car is revealed a little more. Photos, Price and Info

Renault R5: The electric city car is revealed a little more. Photos, Price and Info

Martin_Penwald:
But if I can’t have a SUV, how I’m going to compensate for the size of my zigounette ?
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RENAULT 5 Electric: Towards a reduced price. as its autonomy !

If the pace can seduce, it could nevertheless be that autonomy and the price refer some ardor.

The Renault 5 back in 2024 !

Formalized two years ago, during the presentation of the project Rebirth, The new Renault 5 which is 100 % electric had then attracted its audience. And for good reason, we then found the emblematic style of the Renault 5, obviously modernized to suit our current standards, and in a whole new guaranteed form ” zero emission »».

Already made up of three vehicles (Zoe, Twingo and Megane), the 100 % electric range of Renault will gradually expand, with, among other things, this new Renault 5, which should arrive in dealerships next year next year. The entry ticket should be around 25,000 euros.

A reduced autonomy for the entry -level version ?

According to information gleaned by Automobile Magazine, This future electric Renault 5 could take on a 52 kWh lithium-ion battery, the same as that which feeds the Renault Zoe, displayed for its part from 35,000 euros.

Indeed, despite a collaboration with Nissan for the development of a new lithium-iron-iron battery (LFP), the latter should not be integrated into this future Renault 5, the fault of a lesser density and a more bulky battery. “”
At equivalent size, an LFP battery displays a capacity lower than a traditional Nickel-Manganes-Cobalt technology “, noted Automobile Magazine.

Nevertheless, if Renault wishes to maintain a call price of 25,000 euros, the 52 kWh version of the electric Renault 5 could constitute a mid -range model. In other words, the entry -level version of this new R5 to come should have a lower size block, and would therefore not be able to ensure the distance (400 km) promised.

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Comments (90)

By focusing excessively on autonomy which is not a crucial factor for most daily uses, we can scare people interested in electric vehicles. The important thing is the charge time and efficiency, not the battery capacity.
In order to cope with environmental challenges, it would be wise if the manufacturers turn to smaller and lighter cars, with a minimum capacity battery.
We must not forget that the smaller the battery, the less expensive will be the car.

Below 500 km real, it will remain not for electricity

We should rather focus on the price. € 25,000 for a pot of yahourt… there will be a time to go back to earth

It is a small luxury city car like a Fiat 500, mini and other DS3 ..
Autonomy on this kind of body is not important ..
We do not buy this kind of car to cross France by the highway, but simply for the daily bell tower (job, dodo, marmots at school, supermarket) and already with 200 kms, there is something to do.
If I still needed a 2nd body, I could have this kind of ve.

Beyond 15-18K € then it is too expensive ! DSL but there are other priorities in life and then electricity costs a blind and it will get worse

Because the price of gasoline will decrease ..

But if I can’t have a SUV, how I’m going to compensate for the size of my zigounette ?

Yes but at one point you will want to go to the beach or the mountain at the other end of the country, and you will understand that autonomy is important even if it is from time to time, rhyme in more lol !!

The autonomy of an electric car will be interesting when this car can cross France without recharging, in 10 years maybe. For the moment the electric car is for the ecologists that piss us off

It seems to me to have clarified that this could only be a 2nd box ..
Not everyone is rich like His Majesty !!

The 2nd body is often an obligation in the countryside, and this is not that the richest live in general ..
It is sometimes the price of real estate that decides your place of life.

For a 2nd, 200 km is very good. Let’s not forget that the battery to have 400km or more, it is 100as of kg that we have to hang around daily. As if we had two Malabars as a permanent passengers.

The problem is that there are not many people who put this price in a secondary car.(generally less than 20K €)
The main car, generally we want it to be all terrain, gets to work every day and go on vacation with family ..
In both cases we risk being far from the target ..

Otherwise to cross France, it is above all necessary to recover autonomy, universal, fast and reliable. For example, removable batteries, or a hydrogen tank. Particularly because large batteries only apply to big cars, when we all started by traveling in 205 or Twingo.

Otherwise we can also change our habits a little, and for example travel by train, as generations have done before us. Or cross the country in 2 days by taking the time to discover that they are not limited to its ends, as generations of motorists have done before us ..

On the megane e-tech, you can have a contract for the rental of a thermal for the holidays on an LLD ..

The train only exists in cities … which does not all affect the population. The “small lines” that would have been practical to combat pollution no longer exists physically. Also when you cross France for a weekend or a vacation, by train it is very complicated, and may very often end up in vehicle, see even. And as on site you will need to move and that you will not necessarily be in town ..
Strongly autonomous cars ..
On the train, moreover, I read an article which said that to be profitable the stations must be in the city centers, which in some way excluded the extra urban, close or distant.

Buy a magnifying glass on Leboncoin to allow you to see it in large. And it will be cheaper and as it is the occasion, it’s good for the planet.
NOT.B. : also works with a microscope for desperate cases.

It costs how much a clio / 208 diesel ? We are quickly at 25,000 euros … and in use for big everyday rollers (150 km per day to go to work), a electric vehicle costs very much cheaper.
So, yes, it is not given but it is the level of a diesel city car. In addition, you forget the Euro 7 standard which will increase the cost of thermal vehicles.
For me, the R5 is the model that will definitively democratize the small electric car. And in addition, it has a trendy / fun side that contrasts with current cars which are sad to die.

“While we all started by traveling in 205 or in Twingo. »»
By the first car, the purchase of a used thermal will always be possible, up to around 2045 … so it gives a lot of time to see coming with the improvement of the mass density of the batteries.

Matts32:
for example travel by train, as generations have done before us
Still, it would be necessary to have an open station near home, it is far from being the case in the countryside with the stations which close “outside TGV”

Buy a tesla to go shopping and go to work at 25 km 90% of the time it is nonsense ! The used electric smart is ideal … with the savings made we offer a diesel v6 to make 1000km with a full ..

Yes, but the stations are precisely close because they are victims of the whole car and therefore are no longer profitable for lack of traffic. If we started to reuse the train a little more, the reverse movement would start.
With the challenge facing us, we must radically change both our way of moving (favoring public transport rather than individuals, favoring electric rather than thermal, favoring rail rather than the road) and The quantity of our trips (rediscover all the regions rather than go all to agglute like sheep on the coast in summer and in the mountains in winter …).
Redressing the rail would be particularly effective in the “way”, with an unbeatable CO2 level, even by the electric car (around 2G/km.Passenger in TGV, 10 in intercités and 30 in ter against 50 to 100 g/km.Vehicle for the VEs … and the TER assessment could still be widely improved if it was more used) and a rather high emission/investment gains ratio.
Of course, it will never cover 100% of needs. But for long distances, it can cover a lot.
We could even redevelop something that has long existed but has disappeared for perhaps 15 or 20 years: the car-trainee trip, which consisted in loading the car on the train and thus making the big trip by rail, By only doing the two ends in the car … The autonomy of a VE would no longer be a problem, nor the fact that the nearest station is a few kilometers from the house and a few kilometers from the holiday place … and No problem if needed car on site. This system still exists for the Channel Tunnel, but we could largely redevelop it on the main rail axes (and by introducing more lines bypassing Paris, which the network allows technically already, to eliminate too frequent correspondence to Paris with change from station to bonus …).
And the time spent loading/unloading the train could be largely, if not completely, compensated by the higher speed of the train or by a night circulation, so sleeping … even with 1 hour waiting at the start And on arrival (and I count wide, the Eurotunnel Shuttle filled up and empties in 25 minutes), a Paris-Nice would be done for example in 8h against 9:30 am by car (not to mention the breaks and any traffic jams, etc.) , while for a Wissembourg (town that has no big line train station) -Biarritz we could replace the 1 p.m. woken road (again, without break or cap) by 1 hour short drive in the evening to Strasbourg then a train night and an arrival at the start of the morning.
But hey, for that, we have to stop looking at the wall approaching by refusing any change in our habits when we know that it is untenable to continue living as we live today ..

Those who mainly complain about electricity are the same who do not want to change anything to their habits and especially their comfort, even in front of the end of the world.
Very small additional advantage or comfort is considered to be due, even if it is shown that it is damaging to the community and even the world. My mouth first, change what you want as long as it does not force me to change myself.
It is generally the same people who cry out for fascism when they are imposed on them this change that they did not want to accept by themselves, without even knowing what this word means and what it represents.

Why, then ?
(This is a real question, no malice)

Here it also seems to me that the SNCF has the plan to rehabilitate old line with kinds of mini electric trains, I do not live in the countryside, but it had seemed nice, and no need for a station, a simple stop is enough … a kind of country mini RER what.

The smart is far too small. It is only made for Parisian sores or other major cities in France. As soon as you are in the countryside and even with only 25km to do, you need a real car.
In addition we don’t all have the place to have lots of cars at home.
If it took 2 small electric for the week, a diesel sedan for weekend outings and holidays and finally a small utility to do the work …
Good bah an electric SUV does the trick for me.
And a small type of Megane/308/Golf for Madame. We will see folds late to electrify it too

The Renault 5, it was the car of the poor par excellence. It has always been ugly.
We did not buy an R5 because it’s pretty but just out of spite.
So set foot in this kind of wheelbarrow, no thank you.
Same electric and modern, oh that not.
It could have been worse with a 4L, a 2CV or others from the same time

If only she was hybrid with the hybrid engine of the Yaris, it would be phew ^^

Except that secondary cars are often petrol, especially in town. Very often used too … This trend is even more true with ZFE. In the campaign I agree that she was often diesel, but almost systematically used.
Personally, I think that the electric R5 will democratize in 10 years or it will have been replaced by more efficient models.
The future will tell.

Matts32:
Yes, but the stations are precisely close because they are victims of the whole car and therefore are no longer profitable for lack of traffic. If we started to reuse the train a little more, the reverse movement would start.
I do not agree with this assertion. Many lines are closed because not maintained and dangerous, and not for lack of passengers. On the other hand this lack of maintenance creates the decrease in the number of passengers, you go to the car when you cannot count on the train ! The closure of small country lines is a political choice of economy, most of the small lines even intercités are not profitable, they live money from the regions.
It is not a bad system but it should just be assumed politically.
For the rest I fully agree, it is above all a problem of global reflection on the move, and the number is the key … redevelop the rail would be much too expensive in many of our campaigns, but other solution are possible ..
I take an example around me a lot of people do more than 40 km just to go to their work place in a big city … By public transportation it takes between 1:30 to 2 hours all (for the city center, you have to resume A bus to arrive at work). Reason: these are omnibus because. It would be so much more effective to create stops every 15 – 20km with car park and bicycle and greatly limit the number of stops to have an acceptable journey time. For acceptability, you need comfortable buses. Let us stop the heresy of 63 places sardine ways because 30 minutes poorly installed you sell it to anyone ..
For it to be acceptable, you also need a return solution during the day, because many parents must go get their child at school when they are sick for example ..
In town, rethinking the lines based on the life of the day would be a solution in my opinion ..
For the train, there is another limit, as long as a plane route costs 4x cheaper than the same train … Many people will prefer the aircraft even if in the end the journey time remains the same … the car- train can be an alternative.

If you recharge at home 8 euros for 400 terminals with the 15%increase, we compare with the zozole ?

Hellvtic:
If you recharge at home 8 euros for 400 terminals with the 15%increase, we compare with the zozole ?
I let you do the calculation but actually even by having 10 % increase per year of electricity and an increase in the price of gasoline, gas (increase per year calculating on the average of the past 4 years ), Rolling 400km in electric costs much cheaper than thermal solutions.
In my case, the price difference means that a simple petrol costs you cheaper for about 5 years (about 20.000 km per year with a family that will make at least 7L / 100 in petrol). This is even more important with Dacia BI energy solutions ..
We are in a transition period, the choice is complicated. One thing is however certain, the state will not be able to do without the income of the taxes on fuel, at one point the state will tax the electricity and this calculation will be less true. When . nobody knows.

In any case, the rolling stock of the rolling stock will be gradually done because even if 100% of the cars sold in 2023 were electric (and we will be far away, even in 5 years), there would be barely 50% of the park in electric in 2033.
But for small new cars, the tilting is inevitable and will be done very quickly because of the Euro 7 standard which brings an additional monstrous cost compared to the price of the vehicle. Besides, the manufacturers have already announced that they stop their very small cars (Twingo, C1, etc.). The next step will be the city cars (208, Clio, etc.) and it will also be reinforced with the constraints imposed on us in city centers.
Personally, I think the market will ‹be reversed›. Until now, we had a secondary car that we trained over 20 years with relatively few kilometers per year and the recent family car for the holidays and the journeys of the. In the near future, I think it will be the opposite and that we will keep his main car longer which will only be used for holidays or in troubleshooting (and that the majority of everyday kilometers will be with an electric vehicle which will count a maximum of kilometers).

How is the maintenance is more expensive ? It’s still the opposite, and by far ! (the VE, it is the long -term death of the garages which had a situation pension with the thermal engines)
For having compared with a colleague who has a zoé and who is 80km a day, the VE is very much cheaper even today (we could even say even more today because petrol has increased more than electricity). On the other hand, if we only do a few km a day, it becomes more questionable.

On the situation of garages, I am not worried ! They will find solution, such as imposing air conditioning recharges every year…

For your last point, I don’t really know ..
At home, the main car (we, vacation, family visit + work) has always done many more kms than secondary (basically from single to double at least)
And yet, this 2nd car was rolling every day to go to work and systematically served us for local trips (supermarket, children to carry, etc.)

I have lived in electric for a year (a Taycan). The real autonomy is quite far from what is promised at the time of purchase (in winter, it is difficult to exceed 270km of autonomy, even if in summer we approach 400km), but … it is not a issue. The vast majority of journeys as far as I’m concerned is less than 50km per day. When I have a big family journey, I kept my big SUV 6 cylinders diesel, which rolls about 4000km a year now. When I am alone for a big trip, I take the FE despite everything and I plan my recharges. It’s more restrictive, but it’s actually quite funny. And fast. I earn 200km in 10/15mn of fast charging.
But on a daily basis, we just have to connect when I got home. Fuel station visits are over. Travel is made in a cathedral silence. Driving is much more sunk, even in a Porsche, and we pay more attention to its consumption than to its journey.
You have to know how to get out of its a priori.
There remains the cost, and there I have no argument, except that we save a lot at the time of full (for the moment).

Vidarusny:
One thing is however certain, the state will not be able to do without the income of the taxes on fuel, at one point the state will tax the electricity and this calculation will be less true. When . nobody knows.
Reporting the whole TICPE to electricity, it would be around 4 CTS/kWh with the current annual electricity consumption in France. Therefore of the order of 20% increase compared to the regulated rate.
Vidarusny:
I do not agree with this assertion. Many lines are closed because not maintained and dangerous, and not for lack of passengers.
It is linked, the lack of maintenance comes from the lack of profitability of these lines. The fundamental problem is that instead of considering rail as a fundamental element of the national transport decarbonation strategy, the train remains considered as a second -class thing for those who do not have the means to Paying a car (which is all the more false since the prices are far from accessible on the outline), and suddenly instead of considering it as a real public service, we ask for profitability from SNCF. And necessarily, suddenly it size in the not profitable lines.

Possible today but this is not what we experienced in late 1990 and early 2000. Coming from a small town fairly close to Le Mans the region (or the department I don’t know) at the time wanted to close the station because too costly and close to a big city (20km) (at the time a Fifty daily users). Our mayor at the time was a lot of battered even increased local taxes to finance part of the management of the station … It is obvious that after the closing of this type stations, the excuse of the not profitable line would have followed ..
For the joke, the fifty users was for the time a significant progression of the last 20 years.
Following this announcement the use in Stagné for a few years to student high school students for fear that the station firm. Today still thanks to this mayor, the station is still present and used. By cons I have no figure to say more or less than the time.

Vidarusny:
The closure of small country lines is a political choice of economy, most of the small lines even intercités are not profitable, they live money from the regions.
Quite
For 3 years I had a TGV which left the station closest to my home (45km) and which went directly to Roissy, a classic line on a good part then fast line at the end. The region found it to be expensive and deleted it. Now, I need “at least” 200km to reach a TGV station which goes to Roissy Direct, or otherwise you have to take the car, then the train (or even with a change sometimes), then a metro from the Paris station to the station of the North, then a disgusting RER to Roissy. So as tiring than by car, longer, more expensive ! The choice is quickly made for many: the car ..

With a lot of difference all the same
Electricity is a universal energy that is used for everyone and for everything and you can produce. So tax it will not be easy for the government. You can roll less and not do without electricity.

Hellvtic:
So tax it will not be easy for the government.
It is so “not easy” to tax the electricity that taxes already represent a good third of the price you pay when you are at the regulated price ..

Good so already cheaper maintenance, but much less, so to speak I hardly have it.
The taking nothing to do, I use the exterior socket that I already had for my electric mower
And the EDF hollow hour prices are 0.1470 so * by 64 kWh is 9.4 euros, my car recharges at night

Precisely, add an increase in the amount of what hydrocarbons reports I do not believe for a moment. They would penalize everyone, not just the drivers of the. You have to imagine the popular discontent that it would trigger

300 in winters, 440 in summer but I go on vacation with, even abroad, no problem. Besides, by the way, they are too strong the Italians on the fast chargers

The problem in your idea is that the train needs a network and that said network costs a blind to maintain (around 10 to 100x the price of a road). The cables of the catenaries being in copper, they are regularly stolen (especially since it is damn heavy, therefore very profitable, even for a small section).
Then there is the energy argument. Contrary to popular belief, a SE consumes less than a train, with equivalent transport capacity (and not to mention the good old train to diesel). Thus, a Paris Bordeaux is 19mwh for a 1000 -seat TGV source number of places, source consumption. This corresponds to 200 Tesla (in transport capacity) which consume 19kwh per 100km on the highway, or 1.91mWh for the same journey.
When to put cars on a train, it’s not profitable, it has never been and I doubt it can become. For what ?
Because, in terms of transport, the least mass you have to move, the most effective you are. So the car + the wagon will always be more expensive than the car alone.
The only advantage is that you do not raise the odometer of your vehicle, but economically unjustifiable.

And why should we “penalize” (in addition to the wobbly term … a tax is not a penalty !) Only VE drivers ? Ticpe is a tax that goes to the general state budget, so that benefits everyone, it is not used specifically for expenses related to the automobile, so there would be nothing shocking to what she ‘applies to all electricity. And anyway, in practice, even those who do not have a car today, they are indirectly paying ticpe (because they necessarily use and consume products that have been transported …).
And as the drop in yield of the ticpe on gasoline will necessarily be very progressive, the postponement on electricity can also be done in a very gradual way, which would avoid any “popular growl” so it would go unnoticed … basically, it should increase 4CT taxes on KWH in 20 years, if not anymore … the equivalent of an annual increase of 1% on the basis of the current regulated rate. While here we take 15% in two days ..
And possibly to limit the impacts on the most modest, it could adjust according to consumption, the first X kWh annual could be exempt, then 2 cts for the following Xs, then 4, then 6 ..
Of course, the postponement could also be done on something other than electricity: VAT, IR and is, etc … It’s really not a problem. It would be more complicated if the Ticpe was specifically assigned to the automobile, which would theoretically involve paying its replacement only to motorists (the solution could then be a km tax on the basis of mileage readings during technical control + Lonclaim tax for foreign vehicles circulating in France).

I have never seen the state back to impose something ! You have to see the number of tax “not profitable” (there is a lot of report from the accounts on this subject).
In our case, I already see Bercy explaining that the plate being wider, the tax will be more egalitarian … especially for the 4 cts announced by @matts32

Xryl:
Thus, a Paris Bordeaux is 19mwh for a 1000 -seat TGV source number of places, source consumption. This corresponds to 200 Tesla (in transport capacity) which consume 19kwh per 100km on the highway, or 1.91mWh for the same journey.
So first, I don’t see how you get to 1.91 MWh… 19 kWh/100 km * 600 km * 200 Tesla, for me it’s 22,800 kWh. Or 22.8 MWh… We are already exceeding the consumption of the TGV.
But these figures involve in both cases a filling rate of 100%. It is a rate that is actually possible for a TGV. Not for 200 Tesla … Overall, the average filling rate of a TGV is undoubtedly higher than that of VPs.
Finally, you also forget that your Paris-Bordeaux en Tesla, it is not 300 km/h ..
In short, it is not for nothing that the trains have the CO2/km assessment.The lowest passenger ..
Xryl:
Because, in terms of transport, the least mass you have to move, the most effective you are.
Except that the mass is far from being the only variable in the equation … The mass is especially expensive during the acceleration phases. That’s good, a train has a much more stable speed than that of a car.
Once launched, what costs are friction, mainly air and wheels. Two points that the train minimized compared to individual vehicles … It is not for nothing that in the tracks mentioned to reduce the consumption of road transport, there is the implementation of “trains” of communicating vehicles, to allow Make them follow themselves very closely and benefit from a large aerodynamic benefit … a solution also envisaged in aviation elsewhere.

And if not, a VE with a small autonomy of 100km for everyday life and a small generator (with petrol) of 50cv genus in a corner for big trips, it’s not possible?

Matts32:
We should increase 4CT taxes on KWH in 20 years, if not anymore … The equivalent of an annual increase of 1% on the basis of the current regulated rate
Ah good ? 4 cents for a kWh currently around 17 cents is 1% at home ?

You were born at the time of the R5?
The R5 was indeed not a dream car but the “family” car in the middle class: comfort rather not bad (for the time!), 5 places, sufficient performance (once again for the time) and especially at prices and a relatively affordable interview. Well there have been some really iconic models at the end of their career such as alpine or turbo / turbo2 but it remains anecdotal, and of course very far from the car of the poor.
Hence its enormous success, and thereafter it became the “first car” of many people because the second -hand offer being overwhelming, simple maintenance, reliability not too bad, even if the performances were picked up compared to cars of the time, equipment and performance increasing a lot from one generation to another.
In short, for me, it is not the car of the poor, but I do not understand either of Meo who sells it to us like an icon and tries to pass it for a luxury object or almost ..

This is the basic option included with each SUV it seems to me no ?

Cpicchio:
Personally, I think the market will ‹be reversed›. Until now, we had a secondary car that we trained over 20 years with relatively few kilometers per year and the recent family car for the holidays and the journeys of the.
I completely agree. This is my case for a long time (more than 10 years) and I know lots of people who also “switch”. I have a large vehicle (petrol) almost only for the holidays but it does not drive hardly (4000 to 5000km per year), and a “small” type clio/zoe diesel or electric depending on the period for the 30,000-60000 km by year of work depending on the period.

Yes but too low autonomy, it becomes “scary” because everyone imagines when they risk being in difficulty.
I have an E-208 and the autonomy announced at 320km is very good, but in winter we fall easy at 280km.
I have 55km per day to go to work so I am wide and I could satisfy myself with reduced autonomy. But regularly I have to go to go to just under 100km, so 200 round trip. It made a trip to 255km, last December I tightened my buttocks when the car announced 40km of autonomy and that I was not yet completely happened ^^ ’
In short, less than 300km announced (therefore less with cold, heating, air conditioning …), it becomes too limited to make daily journey + extras
And the recharging time yes, but no one wants to have to find a station with refills, peer 20 minutes that the terminal is free then 10mins to make its charge. It remains a negative point

Our problem is the need for property, to have a car. If we rented it we would have an electric car on a daily basis and a diesel to go to the other end of France, the best of the 2 worlds in fact.

Not on, more and more people turn to the LDD (this is not the LOA), so no concept of property … He just make you pay the car in 4 years through a contract with nothing at the end of the contract …
All the garages that I visited trying to sell it to me … Honestly I don’t think it’s a real property problem for the majority of people, but a need for need.
Even if you can use a car without worrying about maintenance, technical control, tires … It’s much more comfort, it takes an honest price because the car that you rented for 4 years it does not go to The breakage after ..

Disagree, today the salesperson who crosses France in diesel pays much more ticpe than the Parisian who moves in a metro. Indirectly or not.
If we increase the tax on electricity, so if we penalize (and it will be well perceived as a big penalty) the non -rolling we will end up with yellow vests everywhere everywhere. I do not believe it and to make up for 41 billion euros in the long term it is not 4 cts that will be enough.
I think they will seek the cash elsewhere, maybe in the gray card costs and many other small measurements, like tolls, fast chargers, in short everything that will target the driver of Ve without touching the fridge of the fridge of others

In my home there are 3 smarts and I am in the countryside … The rue du Village is 1.67m wide ! Neighbors have 2CVs, 4L and 106 diesel and it stinks when they roll with their thermal horrors. I take the Mercedès V6 of 320,000 km only for long journeys.

Clearly no ! In my opinion, it will be on electricity the TICPE (the internal consumption tax on energy products) is there for that ! I say it and Redis it is not going from the tipp to the ticpe for nothing ! Indeed the electricity is not yet in it, but as an energy … On the other hand, I agree that the implementation will be capillo-tracked, like the social tires in the drinking water.
Example below so much consumption you have a price of electricity at the current price, above a tax is implemented. Because if you consume too much it is that you live in a thermal colander or you are not careful, so it’s up to you to do something ! Either you recharge your car so bah it’s for transport ..
It is not for nothing that a law aims to prohibit renting a thermal colander. And it’s easy to implement.

Palou:
Ah good ? 4 cents for a kWh currently around 17 cents is 1% at home ?
No, it’s about 20%, as I said above:
Matts32:
Therefore of the order of 20% increase compared to the regulated rate.
And I also said that it increases annual 1% if we spread this increase over 20 years.
Matts32:
Basically, 4CT taxes on kWh should be increased in 20 years, if not anymore … the equivalent of an annual increase of 1%
If we take the price today, it’s 17.4 cts. 4 In addition, it’s 21.4 cts.
21.4/17.4 it’s ~ 1.23 (therefore 23% total increase in 20 years).
And 1.23^(1/20) it’s ~ 1.01, therefore 1% per year for 20 years.

Hellvtic:
Disagree, today the salesperson who crosses France in diesel pays much more ticpe than the Parisian who moves in a metro. Indirectly or not.
The salesperson works for a company, this TICPE makes a cost for the company, which it will pass on to its customers, to the end customer ..
Hellvtic:
I do not believe it and to make up for 41 billion euros in the long term it is not 4 cts that will be enough.
Ticpe is 18 billion in the state budget in 2022.
With a consumption of around 500 TWh annual, 4cts/kWh bring back 20 billion.
Of course, this is only the state share, there is also the local communities share. We arrive at 8 CTS/kWh if we must also take it on electricity. But there again, there are also other possibilities.
Even adding it too, it’s 2% per year for 20 years. This is not what will trigger popular vindicte, it would go completely unnoticed in the “natural” increase in the price of electricity (reminder: this year alone it will already take 15%), especially if it’s not presented As compensation for the drop in the Ticpe (and suddenly no reason that the “non -rolling” feel penalized compared to the rolling, since the link will not be done … In fact the aberration is rather the current situation where People who roll a lot pay more than one tax that goes to the general budget, therefore to the common pot that benefits everyone).

However, it was not to put a petrol engine, like a 3 -legged one liter, 1.2 liter that turns ethanol just for city … 25,000 bullets for that ..

And perhaps also and above all invest massively in the recycling of batteries, and in the development of cleaner vehicles.

This is true with all recent cars vs cars 10 years ago, and it is even worse with hybrids (which become the norm) which accumulate 2 technologies.
On the other hand, current maintenance is much cheaper, the operating cost (energy + interview) of a VE is therefore largely in favor of electricity and will be increasingly (for tax reasons).

Well it exists Mazda has just released a model, BMW with i3 Rex, Opel Ampera,…

Another future flop that Renault has the secret … Minimum € 25K with certainly the autonomy of a Dacia Spring … great ..

Of course I was born !
My first car in 1985.
I am not nostalgic for the past but then not at all.
In 1990, I had my first new car: Golf 2 GTI.
Good bah I loved this car but it does not prevent that for nothing in the world, I would not want to renew it. No power steering, shock absorbers not friends with my lumbar !
Excessive consumption. And many more….
The R5, it remains the poor car. As much the more modern twingo why not, the clio of course, the 106/107/108, yes not bad, the 206/207/208 excellent
Bring out the R5 is like the New Beetle for the ladybug of the time.

Everyone does what they want. And that’s really good.
For me a smart is like a car without a license. No chest.
I do not multiply cars at home.
Everyone has their own car. No duplicates.
If we are 3, three cars, each one

“By focusing excessively on autonomy which is not a crucial factor for most daily uses”. For you, okay but for others, you are so on ? Autonomy is important, because in addition to that, it decreases in a very significant way according to the outside temperature, speed, the use of equipment such as wipers, heating, phrases ,… And then less autonomy therefore more need for recharging and wasting time on a moderately long journey.

So there the example seems extremely bad to me. We will see if in more than 30 years you are still in your smart like your neighbors. Not sure either that they were the ones who polluted the most with their low people car versus your good big V6.
And this is not what “stinks” the most pollutes the most (this is the subject?)).

A small electric car for my part on the second car which even became the first since it is the one we use the most. Thermal has been kept for long journeys > 300 km. Otherwise for everyday job, race, leisure … It’s perfect. 320 km of autonomy. 280 by this cold weather. That’s enough. A house recharge on standard socket for around 2 euros per 100 km
15,000 km in 1 year. About 300 euros in electricity for 15,000 km and I do not count free recharge from Lidl when the battery is low and that it wants it to be quick. In short very happy. All this for 250 euros per month. No more petrol or maintenance fees. A contract over two years to test, we will see at the end of the year, which we do. And good driving comfort. Heating programming, in the morning which degives and heats the car before leaving without consuming that much and even less if it is connected. In short, very happy for the moment.

I just had my older (last Friday) and for the moment it is that happiness, or I should have spent € 40 of diesel to go to work … I paid even 8 € … being wide and free recharge at the TAFF (I caught on their terminal at 10kw/h but sufficient to start again).
For the moment there is no debate concerning me, for the long trip (it’s my main vehicle now) with my daughter, I don’t think it will kill us to take a 30 -minute break in fast expense … once or twice At worst so long journey.
My diesel fees will drastically decrease, insurance costs cheaper (with even additional options) compulsory maintenance (every 25000km will not cost me more than 100 € …) I go from the car taff warm and disgriced. and driving pleasure for me makes a good. that positive for 500km carried out.

200% agree. I will add one more argument. If we went to the collective we would not spend money to maintain infrastructure for individual vehicle and we would have a much better quality rail. And so more trains per hour ! For the end of the chain, you can also imagine shuttles. It is very well implemented in the mountains. You come ski, you take the train + the shuttle that waits for the train to have arrived. Yes it is more expensive than the individual car (for a family) but it is once a year so it can be interesting.

Melvin:
For you, okay but for others, you are so on ?
I think you return the argument. I think that people who make more than 200km a day are very rare, even those who make a trip of more than 200km once a week. You may be one of these people there but admits that it is still special.
When we see the medium French mileage, we can reasonably think that the majority can lose 2 or 3 hours going on vacation twice a year compared to the 10 minutes lost every 15 days at the pump.
Wackyseb:
My first car in 1985.
Oh, an old man! Like me … First cash register in 83, a 2 legs, real car of the poor bought 500fr ..
You did not explain to me why you consider the R5 as the poor’s car, it is much more “high -end” than the 4L. There were madness equipment like the retro right, head supports even velvet seats! Afterwards, you had to live in opulence to have the means to have a Golf GTI ..

LD9474:
It is very well implemented in the mountains. You come ski, you take the train + the shuttle that waits for the train to have arrived.
Either you contradict yourself, or I did not understand. As the second choice is more than likely, here is what bothers me. For you to go to the charterctive it is less money for individual vehicle infrastructure. But ultimately your example is more expensive for families .
Good in fact I doubt that the savings on the individual is up to the investment to produce to desert a lot of zone. Public transportation hardly responds to the last kilometers, it is all the more complicated for the train. I take my own example, the closest public transport is 10 km away, I have a coach for the SNCF station (45 minutes not far from 35km traveled or 1h30 for 45 km depending on the station) … depending on the destination It’s the same … Conclusion Your individual infrastructure will remain important even by rationalizing.
By way of comparison by car I am 25km and 25 minutes ..
Likewise in the current context, I am not convinced that savings would go to public transport. But that’s another debate.

LD9474:
You come ski, you take the train + the shuttle that waits for the train to have arrived. Yes it is more expensive than the individual car (for a family) but it is once a year so it can be interesting.
Quite. And bonus, which is becoming more and more so, it is not to go up in motorized vehicles to the station. Whether by bus or VP, you can stop lower in the valley and a cable car is taking over. For example, to the 2 Alps via Venosc or Alpe-d’Huez via Vaujany, it saves 600 to 800 m elevation gain.
There is even a Grenoble-Chamrousse cable car project which regularly resurfaces (well, I believe moderately in its realization suddenly, even if it would make it possible to greatly reduce car traffic, it would require a lot of public subsidies because almost impossible to make profitable Otherwise, and I do not think that the political will is sufficient for it to pass), with a rise in 20-30 min per cable instead of 25 km of road and 1400m of elevation.

No opulence, a “Belgian” opportunity much cheaper than in France.
NMUT:
You did not explain to me why you consider the R5 as the poor’s car, it is much more “high -end” than the 4L. There were madness equipment like the retro right, head supports even velvet seats!
Uh my R5 was beige/brown, no retro right, 4 speeds with a clutch more than apple. The ice washing machine had to pump on a white/yellow plastic button. The brakes of the time it was more to slow down than really braking. No wiped ice behind, no head support either. Even the car radio did not exist. It was necessary to wire everything to install a only radio station and have the antenna installed (not pre-equipped)
So yes it was fun to start but good storage.
Current 85 or 86, big storm of frost and snow. Good bah the windows were frozen also inside. And the car did not obviously start.
And the all -fawded engine without soul .
Quickly replaced by the Nissan Micra really much better equipped then a Nissan Sunny.
It was my parents who made me discover Nissan, they had the datsun 280ZX (I think it was ZX, to be verified). A killing this bodywork. (Well she finished all rusty anyway . ))

Martin_Penwald:
But if I can’t have a SUV, how I’m going to compensate for the size of my zigounette ?
Buy a sedan with more optimized profiling?

Yes and no, I rent my electric car, but I’m happy to have a thermal next door and not have to plan in advance to rent a car as soon as I have to leave. Improvised weekends, of course I could make them electric with stops, or I could try to find a thermal for rent at the last moment, but it is still a small logistics that is not necessarily very comfortable

Yes I agree monthn from Vitee but no more free time but hey you have to add a week of leave paid

For my part I am not against the electric and it likely if I lived in a house (more garage of course) I may already have one, but when we live in apartment with co -hole and all the toutim is Not necessarily easy to have a charging station in the parking lot (and again when you are lucky to have a parking lot in your residence)

It would be interesting to have a study on comparative reliability VE / VT.
But for having wiped a lot of cars, the problems of breakdowns that the garage owners do not find, it happens on all the boxes, and even with the premium brands … my electric experience is not sufficient (150000km) to say if the Ves broke down ..
Keyplus:
Yes I agree monthn from Vitee but no more free time but hey you have to add a week of leave paid
France does not summarize in Paris, Bayonne, Brest and Cannes. We can go less far and visit our beautiful country a little. And even Brest-Vintimille in Ve, it is not done anyway in a week ..
Fox-Idcom:
It’s not necessarily easy to get a charging station
For me this is what is the biggest brake in Ves, then there is the purchase price (since the market of the occasion is not yet well in place) but which remains secondary given the cost of ‘use.

Reativized a little, your R5 should not be very young ..
Of course there were only 5 speeds, boxes 5 did not democratize until early 90s. And the same for radio pre-equipment.
And if your micra was a K10, it should not be better than the R5, the following generation on the other hand was better, but it is more the super 5 generation if my memories are good (not sure …).
Wackyseb:
And the all -fawded engine without soul .
In my opinion, the small fun cars, it only started with the R5 Alpine (high -end therefore), and in the mid -range with the AX and their you 1100 which worked rather well and which were depoted with just a change injector, but not before!

NMUT:
The following generation on the other hand was better, but it is no longer the super 5 generation if my memories are good (not sure …).
Micra II is even already the Clio generation, it arrived in the early 90s it seems to me, while the Super 5 dates from 1984.

Small tour on Wikipedia => You’re right.
But I have memories of the first Micra not terrible, but, still on Wikipedia, I see that there were 3 phases ..

@Clubic in your RSS feed I see an electrical article or not, here are the best -selling cars in the world in 2022. But it is impossible to load this page, “The page isn’t redirecting properly”. Tested on several machines and browsers.
Article published too early then withdrawn ? Config pb ?

Yes, gourrated from a comma. It is the same order of magnitude as a TGV in any case, and I have no doubt that progress on consumption makes the balance fall in favor of cars, within a year or two. There is a lot of cars that consume less than 19kwh/100km already on the market, simply with an i3, you already go down to 15kwh/100km or 18mwh.
However, there remains the practical aspect of the car trip: you choose your destination and your journey, your breaks. You leave when you want, and you are not subject to strikes and other hazards of the SNCF.
If you want to go to La Rochelle or to the Arcachon basin, you go direct instead of having to make a stage in Bordeaux. In the end, you go less fast but you arrive earlier
It’s not for nothing that people choose the car on the train even if it is more expensive (and there is the problem of parking for your car at the station, with the risk of damage, the cost if you pay Vinci Park , etc…)
As for filling, there is the carpooling to develop, to improve this rate. It’s practical enough for the 2 parts. Do not believe that TGVs are full either (the SNCF does not communicate on these rates), but my experiences on the TGV Paris Marseille (which is supposed to be the most profitable line in France) showed me that a TGV is rarely full, probably 50 or 60% of its capacity.
For me, the solution is not to move the vehicle at all, but to have a means of transport on arrival (as at the start). This is why, for me, the real solution is the shared, electric (can be even autonomous) car that allows you to make the last 100/150km around the station when you arrive. Except that the Parisian experiences of self -service cars have been a fiasco, the education of the French concerning public goods is to be redone, in short, it is not won.

tfpsly:
@Clubic in your RSS feed I see an electrical article or not, here are the best -selling cars in the world in 2022. But it is impossible to load this page, “The page isn’t redirecting properly”. Tested on several machines and browsers.
Article published too early then withdrawn ? Config pb ?
I also tested and there is a problem that I went back to the team

Vidarusny:
For you to go to the charterctive it is less money for individual vehicle infrastructure. But ultimately your example is more expensive for families .
One does not contradict the other. Less maintaining roads allows you to allocate a rail infrastructure from the budget (maybe I expressed myself). On the other hand, today, making a car trip can cost more than the train for a family of 4 people. That said, the savings made by the family that no longer has a vehicle makes it possible to widely amortize this occasional additional case (I speak here of the holidays).
For the daily life, I agree that the “last kilometer” is poorly served outside the big cities. At home, no bus. I nevertheless think that this is a political will. The implementation of “commandable” autonomous shuttles on demand should make it possible to resolve this concern.
I “lived” in a society without almost no individual vehicles and people did not complain about it. They had a different relationship to time. This is what makes me say that it is playable with a little (a lot?) will.

LD9474:
I nevertheless think that this is a political will.
Clearly. I have an example from my parents, who live a border village. For their border side, 4 buses per day to go to the center city, at the beginning and end of each half-day. 500m further, on the other side of the border, with certainly a village a little larger than theirs, but on the other hand much further from the city center (15 km vs 5 km), two different bus lines, With a bus on each 30 min from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m.…
Clearly not the same desire to develop TC on one side and the other of the border ..

tfpsly:
@Clubic in your RSS feed I see an electrical article or not, here are the best -selling cars in the world in 2022
It’s repaired: electric or not, here are the best -selling cars in the world in 2022

According to your own links, a TGV rolling at 320km/h, consumes 19mwh/1000km. Still according to your link, this train carries 1000 passengers.
It’s 19wh/passenger/km for a full train.
According to your own figures, an efficient electric car consumes 15kwh/100km. It’s 150Wh/km.
If the car transports 5 people, it’s 30Wh/km/passenger.
If the car transports 4 people, it’s 37.5Wh/km/passenger.
If the car transports 3 people, it’s 50Wh/km/passenger.
I will not even talk about the typical case where a car has only one passenger only his driver.
Filled with block, the most effective electric cars always consume 1.6x more electricity than a TGV going to 320km/h and filled in block. But if a 100% filled train is very common, 100% filled cars are much rarer. So in reality, there is no photo, the advantage is overwhelming for the train which must be on average between 3 and 4 times more efficient than cars. I do not even take into account that the TGVs do not always go to 320km/h.
Finally your argument about cars that will become more effective also works for the next generatio of TGV which is designed to be more effective.

I think you misinterpreted the document. If the TGV has reached its cruising speed, it actually consumes 20kWh/km. But you have to take into account the entire journey (acceleration + braking + slower phases) as for a car in fact. An example is given on page 15 of the document. And there, we arrive at 20mWh for the Paris / Bordeaux journey (which serves as the basis of the document and which is 600km).
Afterwards, I agree that the TGV consumes less than an average car, but not much less, we are in the same order of magnitude. And since that a generation of train is 10 years of design at least, while a generation of car is 2 years, I make the bet that this report will be reversed, simply because technological innovations will benefit to cars first.
And as cars are more practical (for the reasons mentioned above), there will be less and less interest in the train.
Afterwards, the TGV is the exception, for ter, it’s been a long time since the VEs are much more economical than them.

@Palou @clubic another article in your RSS feed for the same concerns of redirecting not working:
https: // www.clubic.com/Mag/Environment-Ecologie/Actualite-456186-Électricite-le-Solar-et-L-Eolien-Doublent-le-Gaz-la-Prémiere-Aven.html

Thank you, I report it to the team
Edit: @tfpsly is corrected
→ Electricity: solar and wind double the gas for the first time !

Buying a car dimensioned to go on vacation once or twice in the year is already an economical non -sense, as much to rent a car occasionally.
Otherwise I had a BMW i3, a kona 64kw and a spring, and I have never been annoyed to cross France each time (Paris <-> Port the new time several times). It’s just longer and you have to organize otherwise, but it remains perfectly feasible.
The problem is not the battery life, but the load speed.

@palou never two without three
https: // www.clubic.com/card-graphic/News-456330-à-Votre-Portefeuille-a-Prototype-de-3DFX-VOODOO-5-4-GPU-ET-VENTE.html

I report to the team, but it will be done tomorrow given the time it is
@tfpsly is repaired: to your wallet ! A 3DFX Voodoo 5 prototype with 4 GPU is on sale !

Renault R5: The electric city car is revealed a little more. Photos, Price and Info

Renault R5: The electric city car is revealed a little more. Photos, Price and Info

Renault 5. The diamond brand took advantage of the Roland-Garros 2023 edition to unveil the eponymous special series of the R5, expected next year. What to discover a little more expected Renault electric city car.

  • Electric Renault 5 photos
  • New R5 info
  • Price
  • Release date

It is within the framework of the French Tennis Internationals that Renault presented, on May 28, 2023, a special Roland-Garros series of the electric R5 that the diamond brand should market in the second half of 2024. A model announced at 95% faithful to the serial version, which allows you to discover a little more about the contours of the future R5, called to become the new queen of electric city cars at Renault.

It is in any case the wish of the French manufacturer which has embarked on a vast electrical program with the marketing of six models grouped in a new entity of the brand with diamond, Ampère, by 2030. The famous R5, highly anticipated, will be fully modernized thanks to the design work of François Leboine.

For Luca Di Meo, boss of Renault, “the objective with this R5 is to make it the only electric city car in the range with a basic price of less than € 20,000 (excluding bonuses)”. The R5 will be manufactured in France in the Douai factory and must take over from the Renault Twingo and even the Renault Zoé, the brand’s first electric star, launched on the market in 2013.

Electric Renault R5 photos

Renault had unveiled at the start of 2021 the first images of its electric R5 concept.

What is the information to know about the new electric R5 ?

Launched in 1972, the R5 remains recognizable almost 50 years later by its characteristic features. The city car will remain very compact with a big touch of modernity. “The design of Renault 5 prototype is inspired by a cult model of our heritage. This model simply embodies modernity, a vehicle anchored in its time: urban, electric, charming “explains Gilles Vidal, director of Renault design since 2020 and ex-chief of the design of Peugeot which had already caused a sensation with its neo-retro model presented At the 2018 Auto World Cup, the Peugeot e-Legend.

  • During the presentation in May 2023 of the special Roland-Garros series, the R5 abandoned its yellow dress in which it had been unveiled in 2021 to cover itself with a white metal satin shade similar to that of the show of the future Alpine A290 revealed a few weeks earlier. A more sober color that we will therefore find on the color chart of the future electric city car.
  • This special Roland-Garros edition, unveiled surprisingly before the marketing of the first models in the classic range of the new R5, has some other small changes compared to the prototype revealed in 2021. This is particularly the case on the thin side grids positioned on the front doors whose reasons will evoke the cross of Saint-André, one of the symbols of the Roland-Garros stadium. On these grids, number 5 gives way to the logo of French internationals. On the rims, a brilliant blue finish brings a fairly classy touch of contrast.

  • On the model presented two years ago, we had already been able to discover that the front of the vehicle transported us to a futuristic era with a light signature which gives a fairly original 3D effect. The air intake of the hood will hide the charging hatch, the rear lights will also integrate aerodynamic deflectors, enough to give a real cure of modernity to this Renault R5 of the 21st century !
  • There are many winks to the original R5. From the side grid to the wheels via the rear trunk, lovers of the R5 will be filled by admiring the flat hood like the pavilion line and the straight and tilted tailgate.
  • We will also note the French flag present on the mirrors, a wink that we were rather used to seeing on the latest concepts of Peugeot.
  • Gilles Le Borgne entrusted the Argus that he studied other chemists and that the battery pack, the cooling system. will be optimized to the maximum
  • This electric R5 concept is part of a large product plan presented by Renault. The brand aims to launch 14 models by 2030, including 6 electric. The R5 will be part of it.

What will be the price of the new Renault R5 ?

Renault has not announced any price at the moment but by peeling the presented product plan, we can assume that the R5 will arrive to replace the Zoé on the small electric city car segment. First, to compete with the Fiat 500 electric, Honda E or Mini Electric, the objective of the brand at the diamond was to sell this electric electric R5 at 20,000 euros. But the situation has apparently changed lately, and it may be that the city entrance price significantly exceeds the. 25,000 euros.

What will be the electrical Renault R5 release date ?

If Renault has unveiled its project to release six electric models by 2030, the Argus announces that the launch of the future electric R5, on which the brand is taking a lot, should take place at the end of summer 2024. And, good news for the group’s French factories, this R5 will be mounted in France, with an assembly provided for at the Douai factory. The electric motor, the 6ak, will be made in Cléon, in Normandy.